Connecting Roads: The Road to the Unknown
Welcome to "The Road to the Unknown," a podcast dedicated to shining a light on changemakers and trailblazers who are redefining their industries and exploring the uncharted territories of innovation and adventure. Join us as we delve into dream projects, past successes, and the most exciting stories from leaders in the experience industry.
Connecting Roads: The Road to the Unknown
From Honeymoon to Lifelong Adventure: The HoneyTrek Story with Mike and Anne Howard
Join Dylan and Mo on "The Road to the Unknown" as they chat with Mike and Anne Howard, the adventurous duo behind HoneyTrek. Discover how their 500-day honeymoon transformed into a 13-year (and counting) journey around the world. From glamping under the stars to offering invaluable travel tips for couples, Mike and Anne's blog is a treasure trove of insights on making the most of your travels together.
Hear their inspiring story as they share the importance of sustainability, community, and authenticity in travel. Learn how they use platforms like LinkedIn to create opportunities and grow their travel brand, and get a glimpse into their favorite glamping spots and exceptional guest experiences.
Tune in for an episode filled with tips on how to embark on your own adventures, the evolution of the travel blogging industry, and their future goals, including their search for the world's most romantic and sustainable destinations.
Continue following along at... https://www.honeytrek.com https://www.instagram.com/honeytrek https://www.facebook.com/HoneyTrek https://www.tiktok.com/@honeytrek https://www.youtube.com/HoneyTrek
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Welcome to the Road to the Unknown, the podcast that shines a light on changemakers and trailblazers who are redefining their industries and exploring the uncharted territories of innovation and adventure.
Speaker 2:I'm Dylan.
Speaker 1:And I'm Mo, and today we're diving into the extraordinary journey of two incredible travelers who turned their honeymoon into their now 12-year adventure travelers who turn their honeymoon into a now 12-year adventure.
Speaker 2:From glamping under the stars to RVing across continents, anne and Mike offer invaluable tips for couples looking to embark on their own adventures. Their blog is a treasure trove of insights on how to make the most of your travels together.
Speaker 1:embrace the unexpected and create lasting memories on the road together, embrace the unexpected and create lasting memories on the road. In today's episode, we'll dive into their journey, uncover their best tips and get a glimpse into the life lessons they've learned along the way. So buckle up and get ready for an expiring ride with Honeytrek's very own Anne and Mike Howard.
Speaker 2:Anne and Mike. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Hello, Anne and Mike. I am so excited to be with you both today. I'm excited to introduce world travelers, national geographic authors and storytellers here today. We're actually in recording from Colorado and I'd love to kind of just start by hearing an introduction of yourselves as individuals and then also as Honey Trek.
Speaker 3:So, Anne, Howard, my husband Mike. Our sort of journey began in 2012 with this dream to go on a honeymoon that was sort of fulfilling all our life goals and adventures, because we realized life was too short to keep waiting for 10-day vacations and we saved and we sold our stuff and we set out on what was going to be a year-long trip around the world. We are now in year 13 and have not come home, being full-time digital nomads, storytellers, authors of two books and true lovers of the glamping industry, and that has been a thread throughout our whole journey.
Speaker 4:And like a little bit on kind of where we came from. I'm from Pennsylvania, kind of the mountains of Pennsylvania, and grew up in Hollywood, california, so like the two polar opposites. And then we both met in New York playing volleyball. I ran a startup for about 11 years in New York so I did a lot of like social media marketing, business-y type stuff, did a lot of like social media marketing, business-y type stuff and a lot of photography. I studied photography at Columbia for a couple of years and Anne was a writer editor, more in the interior design space, but she loved writing for magazines, telling stories.
Speaker 4:And then we just came up with this idea for Honey Trek, like a honeymoon and a long trek around the world and just a way to keep our skills sharp. We assumed we were going to come back to New York. Both of our companies offered us jobs. They said go on your year trip, get your travel bug fixed and when you come back we'll find a space for you. But we figured Honey Trek would be a good way, good resume piece and a good way to share some stories and meet interesting people. And then at the end of year one we were like, wow, this is too much fun. Let's go for another half year and see what goes.
Speaker 4:And then another year went and then Honey Truck just picked up steam and people started calling it the world's longest honeymoon and we were like, well, that's not a bad niche to be on, but we still do lots of like adventure travel. We're not your traditional like you know drink margaritas by the all-inclusive resort pool. We're like getting out there doing adventures, hitchhiking. We were just hitchhiking in Timor-Leste like three weeks ago. So if you go to our Instagram you'll see that reel up there. So we still mix that adventure and luxury side of things with a huge focus for us on sustainability. I mean, we've been, like I said, doing this for 13 years. We've got about 400,000 people who follow us on social. So we feel like we have a platform and a responsibility to find both properties whether they're glamping properties or boutique hotel tour operators destinations that really focus on sustainability and not in like a greenwashing kind of way, like they're really trying to make their destinations or their property regenerative for the land, for their communities. So that's like been a big piece.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and then we found that that was really the most rewarding style of travel and that, you know, in our own storytelling it's just helping people make better choices because in the end, when you are like looking after the community and the environment, they're generally just even better experiences for you and leaving that place even stronger. So that's become our mission is sort of focusing to finding that intersection of like doing good and having fun and people just reframing how they travel ever so slightly. They're still, like you know, dining and having adventures and staying in nice hotels, but it's just in the choices you make travel can be a positive force. So we try and really highlight that for more travelers to experience the world that way.
Speaker 1:I love that and it's so important when you have a following to be, you know, using that platform to spread this awareness and, you know, allow that information to travel. So I love what you're doing with that network that you've created and it's so interesting that you set out on what was supposed to be a one-year adventure. Now it is 12 years in the making. So of course, that comes with networking, taking advantage of opportunities. A platform that Dylan and I live on is LinkedIn. The power of LinkedIn, we feel, is so strong and I have heard that you've reached some opportunities through LinkedIn and I'd love to kind of hear how you use that platform to kind of level up in your HoneyTrack career.
Speaker 3:Well funny. This journey in many ways like it has a strong LinkedIn connection because when we were like, ok, we're going on this 500 day honeymoon, like someone's going to think that's cool, right, someone might want to sponsor us. Like maybe there's a there's gotta be a group for, like romantic travel, honeymoon travel. So let's look on LinkedIn in like a two second search, oh lo and behold, like you know, honeymoon and romantic destination travel group with 10,000 people or something and we just had a very like off the cuff post like we're going on a 500 day honeymoon, anyone want to work with us? Three seconds later, honeymoonscom says call me. And so meanwhile, honey track is not a brand yet we haven't left Like and we thought like as an idea to basically it was a great way to partner and get started. Was they had, you know, honeymoonscom, the number one search result for Honeymoons, and we became editors at large for them.
Speaker 4:Most, of their content was Europe the. Caribbean, Hawaii, your traditional.
Speaker 3:And we were going truly global. So it was a great partnership where, as we were growing our brand, we partnered with the power of theirs to get to review truly the range but a lot of five-star, ultra-romantic places around the world. They're like you're a real couple, we want to know what you have to say about this and you find the places because you have a good eye and yeah, so we contributed articles to their website for a long time. It was a really great strategic partnership and that kind of helped set us on our way. We were very grateful to them.
Speaker 4:And LinkedIn like to this day, like we do a lot of partnerships with either glamping resorts or hotels or operators or entire countries.
Speaker 4:You know DMOs, different people promoting destinations, and LinkedIn is a huge way to connect with them, to show your professional, for them to see your portfolio of projects and recommendations from other partners. So I always recommend it to all my content creator friends. I'm like, you make great stuff and you have a ton of followers, but on LinkedIn is a way to show businesses that you understand their goals, that you're professional, that you're trustworthy, so it is a huge asset for growing, I think, anybody's business. Then, at the very least, get on there, build yourself a good profile and connect with all the cool people you meet at the trade show or at the glamping show or wherever it is, because you never know who's connected with somebody. You can look and say, oh, does anybody know somebody at Google or Tesla or whatever project you want to work on, or Columbia, the country, and then yeah, oh, cool, my brother is good buddies with this person who worked there, so it opens a lot of doors.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. We believe in the power of LinkedIn so hard so it was so interesting when we heard about that opportunity. Very cool, and so you started off really focusing on travel blogging. You're a photographer, writer and I'm sure in the 12 years you've seen just this travel blog travel influencer world blow up. I can only imagine. So can you kind of break down from the beginning of when you started writing, how this travel blog, travel influencer world has really evolved over time and kind of how you see the opportunities changing with it? You mentioned partnerships, and with social media comes even more power of partnerships. I'm interested to hear about that world.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, in the beginning it was just really for us to capture our own travels and share them with family and friends. And at a certain point, you have to be thinking about your end user of like how can you be helping the audience, like what, servicing information that they can actually put into action, things that they should be knowing? But then it's also this game of like you're playing the Google algorithms and people are really going after these SEO driven articles, but we're like you know what? That doesn't feel good too. So it's still this constant balance because obviously it's evolving all the time of like who are you writing for? Are you writing for Google? Are you writing for humans? Are you writing for yourself? And so it is a constant.
Speaker 2:We've never played an.
Speaker 3:SEO game hard, but it's more about like if this is good information, like hopefully it bubbles to the top, you know.
Speaker 3:So we've never gone down that road, maybe as much as we should, but we have friends who did go that route because we are very deep in the travel content creator space and have a big network, and a lot of them are struggling hard right now because they were going after algorithms, depending on affiliate deals, and everyone's traffic just plummeted.
Speaker 3:And then in the AI world now too, it's like why even write the top 10 things to do article Because AI could do that in three seconds. So it's kind of a little bit of an existential crisis, I think, happening right now in content creation and in a weird way, we're coming full circle again of like yes, you still need to provide utility and good information for your reader, but I think those human stories are actually coming back to the top, because you cannot recreate that with AI. You need to know that we were truly there and we met this specific person and the validity of like just the realness. Things need to be real, because now it's all in question, right? So in a way, we're going back to balancing that, inserting more of the human side and the one-off experience, because then you know it's real and no one can take that away.
Speaker 4:And for us, like that human side, the being there, the hitchhiking in a country that you would never tell your mom you were hitchhiking in, you know Mozambique, you know crossing borders in like a dugout canoe semi-illegally, those fun things, those are the things that like really get us going and like get us pumped.
Speaker 4:So whether we're writing a blog about it or putting it on TikTok or making a whatever the new stoop du jour is, the new delivery vehicle, it's kind of the same to us, like we're there for that experience and hopefully we can inspire people to visit these more off the beaten track places through our storytelling, whatever that channel may be. And to us that's like or to me, I think that's why we're still traveling 12 and a half years later is because we're in it for like these unique people, these fun, challenging stories, the adventures, and we're not in it for like, okay, cool, is travel writing going to make me money this year and put food on the table. It's like we're there for the fun. And if little, you know, partnerships come through here and there, great. If not, we'll travel on our own, and you know so I think that's what gives us that longevity and, hopefully, that authenticity. The audience maybe sees that as well.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I love that you stayed true to yourselves and I think that's really what's kind of kept you guys. You know we fell in love with you two and who you are, just as humans and travelers, through social media and reading your stories, and so I think to your point, that authenticity will always win. Very cool, awesome. So I wanted to kind of segue into the glamping world because I know that is, you know, a big passion of yours, similar to ourselves, and you also have read books that include a lot of really fantastic glamping locations. So I first just wanted to start with understanding how did you first get connected with glamping it?
Speaker 3:was on this, you know, honeymoon journey of we are. We love the outdoors, we love on this, you know, honeymoon journey of we are. We love the outdoors, we love adventure. But you know, we're a couple on a honeymoon Like I don't think you know to be pitching a tent and all the struggle of carrying the stuff and the setup and the teardown. We're like, oh, glamping can get the best of the outdoors without all the rough bits you know.
Speaker 3:So the first glamping experience we technically had was in Patagonia in 2012. And we're going into the depths of Chile to Torres del Paine, and we're like, why would we want to leave? And like go back to a hotel, like we're here, but like the accommodations, like there was this shuttling back and forth in the outdoors and like a big box hotel. I'm like why not just like, fully immerse ourselves? You go on this huge hike during the day, you're, kayaking past glaciers and then you come back to, like, a lovely bed and a good meal and good people who've all bonded around this experience. It felt just so much more intimate on the community level, connecting with nature, connecting with each other. We're like this, is it Like? This ticks all the boxes for us and we also love that glamping.
Speaker 3:You can't really put your finger on it. It is not one exact thing. It's ever changing. So you know, whether it's a, you know a tree house one day, or a geodesic dome the other, or something that is just like completely out of an architect's imagination, like you can't be, you know, pinned down, except for, yes, you're connecting with the outdoors. In our mind, it really should have a great respect for nature and done with a sustainability ethos. We love when it's just like truly has a human story behind it and somebody who's gone out of their way to create something special and share with their guests. So the human stories were really fascinating to us and that was like, yeah, so we just made it a part of our travels from that point on.
Speaker 1:I love it. And so in your book Comfortably Wild, I did notice that you are picking very, very unique properties and they are not the properties that when you Google best glamping in the world, you're going to find. And so how are you selecting these glamping locations and where are you finding them? Because some of them are pretty out there in the middle of nowhere, even in communities that I feel wouldn't even really have access to internet. So I'm just so fascinated to see, like, how do you source these people?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean when Falcon Guides reached out to us and they had saw us writing for glampingcom and we'd done some stuff with Glamping business America magazine and they saw us in the space and they liked what we did and they said we want you guys to write a book about the best glamping, and we were like okay, like let's talk. How long do you? You?
Speaker 3:know, probably because they hadn't, no one could really define it. It was like such. It's still a semi-amorphic topic, but like it needed to be, you know, wrangled.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and no one had written a book about it. So they were like cool, we can give you guys like eight or nine months to get this book back to us. And we were like eight or nine months, like we actually want to visit these places. We're not just going to write it from our camper van or you know our Google research and, like you said, look at top 10 glamping in the U S, top 10 glamping in Utah, and just look at these pretty photos which those guys are there because they have the biggest marketing budget and they probably charge the most. And like they're on these lists because they know PR agencies and they're not necessarily the ones.
Speaker 4:That, to us, has all those features that Anne mentioned that heart, that human story, that true love of connecting somebody with this piece of land that they have. Not to say that some of those in that list or some of the top climbing properties don't do that well, but they're. Also, you know, when you get to a certain size, like people become a little bit more of a number and you start getting investors and you've got people that you need to answer to and it becomes more of a product and less of an experience. So we picked places, we did a lot of research, we looked through a lot. We picked places, we did a lot of research, we looked through a lot of websites. We tapped a lot of our friends, like our buddy, ruben, and a lot of other people May Martinez and different people in the glamping industry to ask them like their best, their favorites, and then we literally bought also the word glamping is tricky too, because it's some places in the book we had to like almost tell them they were glamping.
Speaker 3:They're like what do you mean? We're like yes, you have these like totally creative combinations, the way you connect with nature, like you are glamping. They're like oh, oh, maybe I guess we are. So it's this word that some people attach themselves to and some people don't. And we're like don't even worry about the word, you are an awesome experience in nature that is like inclusive and memorable, and you come away with real life experiences.
Speaker 3:So we organized the book that way where it was about different types of experiences. So the first chapter is cultivate these are farm stays. Rejuvenate chapter these are more like wellness retreats In motion. The adventure is the journey to get to those camps that might be in a different location each night, down a river or up a mountain, or take riding covered wagons between them, like. So we wanted to capture the experiential piece of glamping. So that's kind of how we we tried to, you know, also be mindful of getting a good breath of North America and not just like doing them, you know, cause California has a ton of them, but we wanted to make sure we were covering, including Central America and the Caribbean in the definition of North America, to get a really nice range from price points to styles, to the people behind them.
Speaker 4:And then another funny little thing that I was starting to say to write the book, we bought this vintage camper. So we've got a 1985 Toyota, which if you go on Honey Trek and just look up you know Toyota, you'll see all funny adventures. We buddy the camper so we've had that since 2017 and visited all 49 contiguous states in that, but we really got it to visit in person. We visited almost every property that gets a main feature in the book. There's one or two that we just couldn't get to because Buddy was halfway across the country, like just before pub date, and we were like no, we want to include this new camp and we even drove to the Arctic Circle.
Speaker 3:We couldn't get that far in the Arctic Circle, for Arctic Wash Exactly.
Speaker 4:But yeah, so we actually visited these places, tried their food, slept in their bed, did their adventures, hung out with the owners, interviewed them and really just wanted to get firsthand and make sure. And we reviewed some properties that we stayed at that are on those top 10 lists and names that everyone would know, but they didn't make the book because we didn't feel that heart, that love. We maybe never met the owner because they're no longer on property and there's a GM there that is turning and burning. So, yeah, so not every place we stayed at made it into the book, but yeah, we're pretty proud of what we came up with and I mean I applaud Anne because she wrote the entire book.
Speaker 4:I photographed most of it but and she is a good photographer as well but, just like that, that whole beginning section kind of takes before you jump into individual properties, there's like 40 pages about like what is the history? Well, what does this mean beyond? Just like this kind of cheesy portmanteau of glamorous and camping, it's like so much deeper than that and it's so you know it goes way deep into history, way beyond the safari tents of africa. And yeah, just like, what does it mean for people? What does it mean for these communities, for the people that are experiencing it, the inclusivity side. So, yeah, it was. Uh, it's been quite a journey and it's been always great going back to the glamping show and speaking there about the guest experience side of things, because we've glamped at probably 150 or so camps all around the world.
Speaker 3:And when you include, like and we also try and use the full breadth of staying in boutique hotels and five-star hotels, you can always be learning something from all sides of a hospitality. So sometimes when you get too interiorly your category, you need to look up and look around because it's about it's how you make the guest feel in the end and you can take little cues from a really basic budget place that just made you feel special. You know that could be even more meaningful and feel as luxurious as a five-star hotel, because it was about that emotion attached to this trip you had.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I love that you talk about guest experience because Dylan and I we obsess over that and there's so much that goes into pinpointing those really special moments and I knew from the moment that I met you guys that you understood guest experience. So, for some background, we actually met Mike and Ann in Colorado at the Glamping Summit years ago and upon meeting them they welcomed us with a I think it was a cup of spiked cider and it was a chilly fall afternoon. Yeah, but it's like that little pinpoint moment and just a little bit of a deeper connection to share a warm drink with someone. Like that's guest experience to us, and the guest experience can be defined in so many different ways. What are some of the coolest amenities or features or guest experience moments that you've had throughout your travels?
Speaker 3:I do think that welcome moment is so important because people are, you know, have traveled great distances in some of these camps. You know they're out there. People get a ton of vacation days and they need to shuttle that the moment they arrive. So it's like about this, like big embrace when you get there, that you are now in this, like safe, inspiring, relaxing space. And if you can do that, the moment they like go down the drive and feel like they've entered your world. They feel like you've become a part of something. I feel like as many ways as you can do that to slow guests down and make them take a moment of like you know, capture that gratitude and excitement.
Speaker 3:And that can be done in many ways, but I think that's the heart of it. It's just like making people feel like yeah, shut all that Like welcome, You're in our world now.
Speaker 4:And I feel like, yeah, shut all that, like welcome, you're in our world now. I'm so glad you're here. Two other ones that I love that when a camp does this and it's related to what you said about like, okay, a warm beverage. It's, like you know, having a tea and coffee station with some snacks 24 hours a day. That's always there Whenever you've got a little grumbling of hunger. You wake up an hour earlier than your partner Just go down and grab a tea and a scone and go sit and do some yoga or sit at the Vista. It's like such a small, super cheap thing to do. But the amount of people that don't do it or make you like wait until the restaurant's open to go get your coffee in the morning or you know, like so just having a little station where people can go and satiate those very simple needs of just a warm cup of coffee.
Speaker 3:It's one of the ways you can make people feel like they're not a number and it's just like you know those little details of like a handwritten note or like a sign on the door with your name on it, or you know just a little touch of like you know life when you get to this, like a fresh little fresh sprig of wildflower by the bed or you know a just a two welcome drink, something that's like they were anticipating my arrival and they're happy to see us, you know.
Speaker 4:And your name goes a long way your name on a chalkboard or a piece of wood or however you know something that's easy for the cleaning staff to do. But your name on the tent is such a great and it's a free hack. It takes 20 seconds for the cleaning person to look up and see the name, as long as you have that in the flow of who's checking in. And she writes Ann and Mike on that little board in front of your tent.
Speaker 3:That's like cute and framed.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's a cute little frame but she just writes it in chalk or in a little whiteboard. It's. You know you're in the right tent, so you're not confused. Are we 10 or were we? You know one 10? Like I forget, I don't want to walk into somebody's tent. You know and they're already in there, so you know what tent you're in.
Speaker 4:They're going to photograph it because they're going to see it there in the front of the tent. Oh, I'm here, it's my anniversary, so it's good for Instagram and social and capturing that. And then, like Anne said, it makes you feel like, oh, they knew I was coming, they're welcoming me and it could maybe say happy anniversary or happy birthday or whatever. You can make it personal and that's just takes 30 seconds, zero dollars. Then they're not just tent number 10. This is Mike and Anne's tent. Other people can go when friends are walking around. Oh, that's their tent because I see you know Jim and Patty because they're my friends, so I know they're in this tent. I don't have to ask what number they are. So there's a lot of benefits to a little simple name sign on a room door.
Speaker 3:I didn't think about that. But in terms of the name thing it's very specific, but anyway the idea of that. Also there's different vibes and glamping about like how community oriented they are and this was like a whole pandemic thing mostly around like ooh, everybody needs like a ton of distance now. But I do think there is a lot of community opportunity because if you all found like as guests, if you all chose this one place in the middle of nowhere, like you already have something in common, like this is like something brought you together and to kind of invite those moments for guests to meet, because that can be just as meaningful as like interactions with the host, is like the community that you're building there. So I guess as like a playoff of that, like if you knew patty and jim were at the next one but you met them at breakfast, you forgot their name, like it just like is another touch point to bring people closer together like a name tag on your shirt, but without being dorky, and you know you look at their tent.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, hey, what's up? Patty, good morning, you know. And then it's more friendly, it leads to a more friendly camp vibe. So yeah, just one little small tip, but yeah absolutely, and it really does feel like the.
Speaker 2:I hear you guys talk a lot about community and the experience and it really does. We could feel that through this, and so I would love for you guys to give some advice to somebody that's looking to open up a glamping site, and what would you talk? I know you guys run a glamping consultancy and help a lot of these new founders that are looking to set up some tents on a piece of land or invite people to stay inside of their farm, and so what piece of advice would you guys give to somebody that was looking to launch a glamping site?
Speaker 4:I will give my number one piece of advice. Was looking to launch a glamping site. I will give my number one piece of advice. And you would be surprised how many people we coach that either acquired land through the family, already bought land, some of them even bought tents, and they come to us, you know, to help build that guest experience. And how do I make this successful and grow my brand? And do social media, you know, make a really good glamping experience and they're coming to us for these things.
Speaker 4:And it is way more than half of them who have never gone glamping, like they've never glamped themselves. They've seen it, they've seen it on social, they've been to the glamping show, they've researched it, they bought our book. They're like yeah, I know this, this is exactly what I want to do. And we're like, okay, look, where have you glamped? Like give us a few of the places. And they're like well, we stayed in this one place. It was like kind of glamping, but not. I'm like okay, here's your research. You need to glamp three different times in super lux, mid-level budget, all in different in your area. Who's your competitor? So like to get out there and experience it, because you'll learn so much about what other people do, how they engage with the guests. Because there is and it's also it leads to another piece of advice that it looks like very easy Just put it up on Airbnb and people will just show up and give me 150, 200 bucks a night to sleep in this cool dome that I bought on my property. But there is a lot of communication with the guest and when you go glamping somewhere, you will see all that that property does, the way they're emailing you and giving you tips what to bring, what to pack, how to go glamping. You'll get there and you'll be like oh, I didn't realize that there was no shampoo, you know, in the shower, because it's a shared shower. Okay, things I need to tell my guests ways that you'll learn so much about shared bathhouses and cooking and how do I provide food.
Speaker 4:Because you'll be having those same questions that your guests will then have, because glamping is new for a lot of people, including these people who are starting camps. But then you're gonna be promoting your camp to a lot of people who have never been glamping. You, as a camp owner, will be a lot of people who have never been glamping. You, as a camp owner, will be a lot of people, if not most people's first glamping experience.
Speaker 4:So you need to know and experience these things yourself and have those same questions that your guests will then have. So you'll learn a lot about how to solve those problems and, like Ann said, not just being personal, but you want to solve as many pain points as your guests are going to have because it is a unique experience. It's in the woods, it's weather dependent, noise, travels all different ways through these tents and animals are there and critters, so like as much as you can remove those pain points to really let them like dive into your property. Your experience. You know the, the things that you're going to provide them to make this a special glamping adventure and easy, because you want them to come back, you want them to try other glamping camps.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think start small. It's not like you're building a hundred unit hotel room, like you can do it in stages and you will learn so much if you just start with, say, two, three structures and then maybe versus you with all in on one style of structure like, well, these are having all these problems now or they're. We're getting complaints right by series and they're harder to clean, they're noisy, whatever it is and it's. You can iterate and I think that's a really smart way to go and that there's a lot of factors about like how much land you have and and having things be cohesive. But I think, before you think about how you pack out your land with as much, remember that glamping is about that experience and that privacy people are paying for this.
Speaker 3:You know little slice of nature. They feel like the world's disappeared around them. Right, you can create this balance of, like privacy and communal space. But I guess bottom line is just like plan for growth. But don't try and think you have to like go all in at once. It's meant to be a learning process and I think you'll have a longer lasting business if you just like accept that you're going to make some mistakes, learn from them and reevaluate, like every two years.
Speaker 4:And to nod to that idea of like, don't just go all in and be like, I can fit 10 tents. I'm starting with 10 tents because I I need to make all this money. If making money is your goal, do not start a glamping camp right. Go back to school to become a lawyer or just go work as a road crew. You'll make a lot more money, you know, flipping that little stop and yield sign than you will at your glamping camp. I don't know about that, at least in the first couple of years.
Speaker 3:It's going to take time right People. This is not. This is not. There's a lot of people who talk about like the fast, easy money of glamping and they put up a tent.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But it's not one. It's too competitive for that. These days, like the novelty of just like popping up a tent in the woods is not enough anymore. So you need much more mindful in the experience you're creating to have it last, but you have got to do it for the love of it. You know the most successful properties, the ones that like they feel like they've done something different, that has character, that has meaning. So where you'd like to race to be like yeah, I'll just buy a bunch of stuff and I'll be ready for the summer, and like you know, and it's going to benefit you a lot more in the end.
Speaker 3:With intention.
Speaker 4:And when you start with those two or three tents, you much like you'll learn when you go glamping somewhere else. But when you start with those three tents on your property and in the beginning you open up to your friends or your family and then you invite some friends and then you invite their friends, friends you are going to learn so much about yourself, about your land, about what these guests want, because a lot of people start with an idea like oh, I know, I know why people are going to want to come here, cause they're going to want to go to this one waterfall and because we're near this apple picking grove. And then you get there and people are like never want to leave, they don't want to go to these things nearby, like because they have a different goal or they have a different expectation. So you'll learn those things and then be able to iterate more than if you just go all in with those 10 or 20 tents right off the bat. You'll learn about yourself, you'll learn that maybe it's too much work or maybe you'll learn you know a lot of different things in that beginning and you'll be able to iterate in a direction that brings you joy, brings your guests.
Speaker 4:Joy obviously brings you as much profit as possible. Because if you have those good intentions, your guests, happiness and, you know, heartful, you know if that's your goal, then it will turn to profit. If you go in thinking this is going to be super profitable, I'll make X, y, z, I did the spreadsheets and I buy these tents for this and I'll make exactly this much money that will come through to your guests, right, you will begin to think of them as dollar signs and even if you know you're the most loving person, like it's better to have that good intention because that's what's going to turn to a good guest experience, then they're going to go tell their friends wow, you know, this host was just like family to me. You know, like we're going to come back there every year and tell their friends and you get those repeat guests. So, yeah, going in with a good love of people and of nature, and the success will come.
Speaker 1:I feel like both of our brains are like spinning right now because we have so many things that we could touch on from that response.
Speaker 1:But I love that you're staying true to your values and giving just like such honest, you know feedback to people, maybe even if it's not what they want to hear. You know some a person could have the capital to start an epic glamping retreat, but if they don't understand what glamping is, then you really need to make it back to the root. And one of our favorite actual glamping experiences we were in the Adirondacks and this woman had taken over a summer camp and before she even opened up her little cabins to the public, her and her husband slept in them and understood oh, this is something we were missing at night or it was absolutely freezing. There's no way we can't have some type of heater in here. And that's the reason our experience was so amazing is because she understood what her product was, worked on, it refined it, then from there added another cabin and another one from there and now two glamping tents. And so it's like building intentionally and having that heart and loving what you're doing is just. It's so important.
Speaker 4:Totally and to your point about like sleeping in their own structure.
Speaker 4:Even before you have structures, we always recommend clients like get a tent if you need a cot, you know, because you need that level of comfort. I love cots inside a tent because you get to a certain age and you don't want to be sleeping on tree roots. But get a nice little, you know nice big tent with a couple of cots and you and your partner or you, if you're solo, just stay in different parts of your property, because I live here four seasons. Yeah, you live there in your house with a heater and a boiler and an air conditioner and things that you know no mosquitoes can get in. But are you going to expect your guests to be in a canvas tent in November when it's, you know, 18 degrees outside? I don't think so. So, different seasons go tent yourself in November because you know maybe in Georgia you can do it, but you're probably not going to be in a tent in Minnesota in March. So, yeah, get a feel for what your property does, what nature does how you feel.
Speaker 3:I feel like this is a. So it's amazing how many times you stay at a hotel and like the staff has never stayed there and yet they're the first like line of defense for like questions and problems, like they don't even understand what the problems are because they haven't experienced them. So I think it also to instill loyalty in your staff and that stuff might just be here, you know the cleaning lady to the GM.
Speaker 4:Like everybody that you hire, should stay on your property multiple times. Maybe it's one of the variable there.
Speaker 3:They will become more of an expert, you know, and a more an extension of you when you can answer all the questions. And then I just feel like also like the loyalty bit and bringing them into like that they are a valued member of the team is important as well.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. It's hard to speak of something if you haven't experienced it, and you want those people at the concierge desk to be, you know, an extension of the brand, to be proud to be wearing that shirt. So in order to do so, you really do need to sleep in the bed and experience it for yourself.
Speaker 4:Yeah, Exactly, especially whoever's taking your bookings, whoever is answering that phone call, whether it's your niece that you've got taking bookings or somebody remotely in a different town fly them in, put them up in your camp, because if they're going to be answering questions like is there silverware? What's the bathroom situation? How cold does it get at night, you want your receptionist to be very experienced and be able to be. Oh yeah, I just stayed there a month ago and it was great like this, and they provide a cooler for you, so you don't need just bring ice and all the little things that they'll learn.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, Absolutely so kind of segwaying from there. You've stayed in many different places specifically that focus on being eco-friendly and sustainable, and so I would love to kind of understand what things that you've seen that you think more hosts to try to replicate in order to just kind of in the hospitality world to try to replicate in order to just kind of in the hospitality world. We see so much waste whether it be food to a shampoo bottle that's maybe had one little squeeze and it's going in the trash even toilet paper in hotels that as soon as there's a rip off of it it can no longer be in a room. We see it everywhere. So what practices have you seen that others could easily put into their own glamping properties, I mean?
Speaker 3:one thing this is a we get all riled up about this about water is like it's such a simple fix, like if you, yeah, drinking water around, the idea of like if you are an eco-friendly resort, you've got to stop using like single use plastic water bottles and to have like pretty little refilling stations around the property, like maybe there are glass crafts in the room and they say a little note about you know fresh water or whatnot, so that people you can be you know providing solutions that are not actually damaging the environment. So like water is such an easy one that like get over the idea that you think it's a convenience, like oh, how nice, I've thought of them and gave them bottled water. You can still do this in a way that's not not mindful. You can be walking the walk and not slipping on single use plastic.
Speaker 4:And to communicate to your guests in advance, because if you, even if you have the glass water bottles in the room with a note that says you can refill these over at the coffee station that's open 24 hours, you can fill it there, or the cleaning staff will refill it every day when they come to your room, even if you have that, if you don't tell them in advance in the email. Hey guys, we are no single use plastics resort, so please don't bring bottled water. We have all the water you can drink.
Speaker 2:It's been RO filtered.
Speaker 4:Bring your reusable water bring your Nalgene or we have bottles on hand if you want to borrow ours. But just please don't bring three, 24 packs of water that you bought for $1.99 because it's cheap and you're going out in the woods so you didn't know we've got all the water you can drink. You got to communicate to them, or else they're going to buy it and it just sits in their trunk, so that's like water. We've actually been and was kind of laughing, because part of our mission, like part of honey trek's mission, is to show other travelers that we don't need to be consuming single-use water bottles, even in places where the water is not potable, like there's a way to find clean water so quick, quick, little side story.
Speaker 4:But in February of 2012, so month two of Honey Trek we made a pact to see if we could go an entire month through Argentina without a single bottle of water, a plastic bottle of water, and we did it and to this day, since February of 2012, we haven't had a single-use bottle of water and through now 79 countries we've been without one. So we purify our water with a little UV light. There's a lot of different ways you can do it, but UV to us like kills everything. So if we can do it through Timor last day and we did India last year with just doing tap water that we shot we've done China stuff. If we can do it abroad, you can do it at your glamping camper on your trip. So water is a big one for us. Kind of parlays into recycling, I think.
Speaker 4:Compost Recycling and compost and compost might seem a little bit extreme, but your glamping property is in nature. It's pretty easy to compost. We're not trying to tell you in your high-rise apartment, where you might have to drive 10 miles to put your compost. You can have a compost bin on your property somewhere. But then again, you also need to educate your guests and tell them hey, when you're done with your meal, please put your food scraps in this compost bin or your cleaning staff will know to do it and realize that food waste especially if you're serving food at your resort, food waste is such a huge part of emissions at your resort. Food waste is such a huge part of emissions. And not only that, the waste side, that compost will make your flower beds and your herb garden explode because that's all such good nutrients.
Speaker 4:And your guests when we go to a glamping property that purports to be eco-friendly and there is not a recycling bin in my room and they might say, oh, we'd separate it later. But even just like you know, having that in the room, two bins, the blue and the black, shows me that you're thinking okay, because you know I'm going to be drinking a wine bottle or a couple of beers and have recycling generated from my room and then in the public spaces have a third, have the you know the yellow one there for your compost materials. That shows your guests that you're thinking, because your guests are not your traditional Marriott Hilton traveler Not saying they're not eco-minded, but on a whole the glamper who comes really cares about nature. That's why they're there. So you need to show them that you also care. So it's just two little small things that pop to mind for me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and so in the end, being off grid will ultimately give you more options. So sometimes it's more expensive to start that way or getting there's. A lot Prices are coming down on things like solar and various renewable energies, but it's also like well, maybe that amazing, like the best view is up the hill and you would never get power to it anyway. So, to start, it will give you more options to be off grid in the end, and it's the right thing to do so, even if the upstart might be harder or more expensive. You will be walking the walk if you go that route and I think in the end we'll give you that autonomy, ultimately in theory making money back because you're not paying for your power. So it's good to start from the beginning, versus backtrack later and make a plan for real renewable energy sources, and the whole hope for Glamping is that these are places that are making the land that much better versus degrading it. So we hope people go on with that ethos when they get in this style of accommodation.
Speaker 4:And to Anne's point about being off grid, one of the side benefits. People think, okay, how much is it going to cost me to get solar or to get a really nice composting toilet, and you know there are expenses to it. And then they think, okay, how long does it take to make that back? And but there's another little kind of side benefit is, if you are off grid at each of your, so your tents or your, your structures are autonomous. It's so easy to move that structure to a different part of your property to get up to that crazy view because it's there.
Speaker 4:You don't need to run new plumbing or run electrical conduit a quarter mile into the woods for your secret hideaway, romantic one near the waterfall, because you've got this thing that can. Obviously, you've got decking and a little bit of labor, but it's all there. You've got your shower running on propane, so you've got a nice hot shower and a really nice flushing but still a compostable toilet. So if you dial those things in, it's very easy. And then also to add new tents, to add new structures, it becomes a lot more affordable to just replicate that out than have this master plan of a lot of different utilities and then, yeah, then you're reliant on the grid and then, when you're off grid, you can use those things in your marketing materials.
Speaker 4:And it's good for press too, when you're reaching out to the local newspaper to be able to say hey, we actually sequester carbon. We are like carbon negative. We're like the first hotel in XYZ County that has zero footprint because we both offset stuff. We're solar, we reclaim rainwater to water our plants and whatever things that you can pitch. Those are good stories, right, the media wants those. They want that sustainable story, your tourism board.
Speaker 3:They're proving that they would choose that they're off. Now they're willing to pay more for that in the end.
Speaker 4:Yeah. So there's a lot of not just goodwill for mother nature but for your business. You're going to get a lot more stories from journalists, from media, so there's a lot of good benefits to being off grid, aside from just the dollar and cent. So what does it cost?
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and it's so important to leave the land better than you had it, especially in this industry of inviting people into the outdoors and using this opportunity to educate and have people take that back with them, and it's it's so important and it's a reason why we really love the glamping industry. And after 12 years of Honey Trek and you guys continuing on the road, what are your future goals over the next year or so? What is Honey Trek looking like in 2024 and beyond?
Speaker 3:So this is very, very breaking news and it's all in its nascent stages.
Speaker 3:But just to tease it out a little bit, in the travel world, I mean we kind of straddle both worlds right.
Speaker 3:So we are travel experts with the glamping focus and we feel like the world still doesn't know how amazing it can be and how inspiring of a model of travel these regenerative models can be. And so we just shot the makings of a pilot for an experiential travel show with a strong thread of glamping and outdoor accommodations. So that is a big project we're working on now and that sounds interesting to anybody to reach out to us as we're looking for various partners and whatnot. But yeah, I feel like, especially with, like Anthony Bourdain like no longer having his show there's still like there's room in the travel space to be telling authentic stories that have an impact and make people think beyond, just like the glittery, gorgeous places and places that have heart and will come away, where, like have vacations that are more than their life experiences. So, yeah, we're pinpointing right now places that our agenda of travel is a big threat of it. Also, people have suggestions for places they think are like, truly have wonderful human stories behind them.
Speaker 3:So yeah so people have, just because we're trying to be very specific about who we're picking to feature in this show. So we feel like there's some truly standout properties who are excellent models of experiential travel that has got a regenerative and often community element in exploring places.
Speaker 4:Which is a good parlay into another project we've got going on which is our search for the world's most romantic and sustainable destinations. So we're trying to find that confluence of you know where romance and luxury meet, sustainability and giving back. So those are mostly destination focused. Obviously we try and glamp in those destinations whenever we can. But if you go over to Honeytrek, so H-O-N-E-Y-T-R-E-Kcom and just type in sustainable or romantic, you'll see that article. We've got about five destinations on there.
Speaker 4:Maybe eight, yeah, costa Rica and French Polynesia, and you can dive into those, and then, if you have suggestions of places we should go, we're always traveling the world to find those stories From the glamping perspective you kind of mentioned. Our course, if anybody's interested, they're all one-on-one over Zoom, so it's just us and you guys and sharing all of our insights from these.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we tailor the course, basically because everyone's situation is very different. So we send a questionnaire out to be like what are the concerns, the pain points, and try and find solutions for you to get your camp off the ground or even refine your camp. We've had people who are still looking for land. Two people have been in business for a couple of years going, no, what can I do better? How can I level up? So it's always really fun for us to really adore this community, so we think about maybe making them a video series at one point. But we also just love the human connection between our people in this space and helping them make something really amazing that's going to leave them fulfilled and feeling successful.
Speaker 4:And then, like, obviously, honey Truck on all social media, from YouTube to TikTok to Instagram to Facebook, if you DM us little questions or thoughts, we're always happy to interact with people.
Speaker 4:And then, yeah, we've got our two books, the Ultimate Journeys for Two and Comfortably Wild. That'll give you kind of a little bit of our philosophy and a lot of our good tips there too. So always happy for that support and just sharing good ideas with good people like you guys and your audience and trying to help make the world a little bit better with some good-hearted proprietors and stories and and travel always uh, I don't know, it just kind of makes you, it just humbles you when you see outside of your bubble and you see the way other people live and how kind and giving. Some of the poorest places that you visit are the most kind and you know just giving people when you're traveling and they just want to invite you into their home and just give you something. All they've got is rice and water, but they want to give it to you, they want to host you, you something.
Speaker 3:All they've got is rice and water, but they want to give it to you, they want to host you. Yeah, we've been really moved by, like, the kindness of strangers and just the way other cultures think about hospitality to family, to what is joy, and so, yeah, so 12 plus years later, we're still traveling the world because there's so much more to be discovered. So, you know, getting outside your shell and just like being open to what's out there and trusting beyond, just like that top recommended places that, like, the best places, are the ones that aren't, you know, over-touristed. So we're thrilled. Thank you so much for having us on the podcast and we'll be stoked to keep the dialogue going.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely. Thank you guys so much and keep staying true to your values spreading positivity, having a positive footprint like the impact that you guys are making on these small communities that many of us have never heard of. It extends so deep, and so we're inspired by you guys and appreciate your time and look forward to future conversations.